Originally Posted by mamboni (Post 372846)

The responses so far have varied from sardonic to sarcastic to irreverent, with a couple expressing frank and honest dispair at the limited prospects.

This is a tough crowd! To quote Lloyd Bridges: "I guess I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue!"

Originally Posted by goddess (Post 372835)

Originally Posted by SilverNuts@Bolts (Post 372852)

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Well, you are always welcome, to come to Canada if, you can stand the cold winters.

Originally Posted by mamboni (Post 372800)

GIM members are international in scope so I ask: is there any country or enclave where a person can still work, keep most of what he honestly earns free of confiscutory taxes, and enjoy relative privacy and freedom from the ever intrusive and controlling government? :albertein

Originally Posted by Large Sarge (Post 372854)

I have thought Costa Rica might not be bad, its kind of the "switzerland of central America", international neutrality, peace, etc
Great Climate.

Originally Posted by Sukhoi_fan (Post 372933)

If you've never been to CR, I suggest you go - it is stunning in its beauty and the natives are very laid back and generally very friendly toward Norte Americanos. It is indeed paradise so Ticos and Ticas aren't clamoring to escape to the states, they are very happy where they are. The common phrase down there is Pura Vida - the pure life.

However, as a relocation destination it has its problems. For one thing, in order to own real estate there with a minimum of headache it is necessary to permanently retain a lawyer who specializes in monitoring the land records so someone doesn't file a claim against your property which would result in you losing it. Another problem is the level of crime, especially petty theft, which is on the rise there. In San Jose there is not a single piece of property that isn't secured with burglar bars, walls, security guards, dogs, and/or roll down riot gates. One has to drive for about an hour out into the countryside until one begins to notice a lower level of property security. Oh yeah, and there are earthquakes a couple of times a year so all the roofs are constructed of sheet metal so they aren't so heavy which could lead to a building collapse.

Originally Posted by GoldWampum (Post 372973)

7 years in Tibet?

Yeah Thai would be cool but the coup. Who knows now.

Originally Posted by Large Sarge (Post 372976)

There was an article on prison planet about the coup, it basically said the military and some others were throwing out the crooks and all the guys from the CFR

Like if a group of generals approached shrub, cheney, kissinger, and friends and said "Start packing... we do not need you here anymore"


A.J. said it was a "Good Coup"

Unsure myself

Originally Posted by sammydogs64 (Post 372987)

Shut Up! You are so full of SH*T. You are not going anywhere so just sit down and shut up looser!

Originally Posted by sammydogs64 (Post 372987)

Shut Up! You are so full of SH*T. You are not going anywhere so just sit down and shut up looser!

Originally Posted by Ponce Cuba (Post 372983)

As you people know I will be buying my "Silver Island" one of this days so that now I am "window shopping" on the web....... have seen a couple of them of the coast of Panama and of Belise for around $200,000.

One has a small home and the other one does not but I really don't care about it to much because I'll be building my own...... the main thing is that I want it to be AWAY from people and this two island are to close to shore.

First post of the day...... good morning to one and all.

Originally Posted by WillTheSHTF? (Post 373104)

I think anyone considering moving to a foreign country had better think twice. You would basically be a fish out of water. You wouldn't know your way around, probably wouldn't speak the language, might encounter racist hostilities, and would encounter many harships. I think we should go to mostly uninhabited areas in the us that have no sought-after resources (like oil or gas). Won't most of the problems that are on the horizon affect city dwellers? Do you think the government is going to send anyone into the boonies to round a few stragglers here and there? What about the ozark mountains? You could easily get lost there. Property is cheap, there is lots of wildlife. Wouldn't that be a saner move?

:wink:

Originally Posted by Marketneutral (Post 372819)

Not bad 5 posts in we got a bash against Israel and a post about religion.

Who says on Friday's you guys miss a beat? :yippee:

Originally Posted by demosfen (Post 373125)

Antarctica is pretty rural. May not be able to get internet access there though. :banghead:

Even better, inside the earth, assuming that the theory that earth is hollow is true

Originally Posted by Turner-son (Post 373186)

I'm curious as to what you mean by that last statement. Will you please explain?

Originally Posted by mamboni (Post 373116)

and there is always Alaska!!!

Originally Posted by demosfen (Post 373225)

Google Admiral Richard Byrd.
There is quite a few books on this. Here is a brief overview - http://www.2012.com.au/hollow.html

Originally Posted by BAD BAMA (Post 373242)

if i may this thread is quit disturbing to me if those of you that think the worst for the USA is now upon us i must ask have you folks enjoyed the freedoms of this country because i know i have i feel i am one of the luckiest people on the planet for being born in this country but the gift of the life i live and the freedoms i have were not given without a cost and that cost was paid for me by the founders of this country and all the men and women who fought and died who also sacrificed by taking the hard road at times not because it made their life easier but because the wanted to make our lives better their selflesness is in direct contrast to what i am hearing here it seems that what i am hearing hear is where can i hide until some one else workes out all these problems how shelfish can you get outhers did for you and you are saying f***the next generation i aint trying to risk my comfort for them if you think the country is going to h*ll in a hand basket then shame on you for not fighting to leave it better than you found it i am not trying to pick a fight with any one but if you wont fight or sacrifice then please get to hiding please stay out of the way of those who will fight to keep this country free but dont expect a warm welcome when the smoke clears

Originally Posted by TheKingsSon (Post 372816)

If it helps here's what God told us Christians. You may want to take a hint.

1John 5:19
And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

Originally Posted by keehah (Post 373277)

The only real alternative is not to fight, but to drop out of the system (as much as you can) till things are better

Originally Posted by R MacDonald (Post 373296)

Here is a link I used for research a while back:

http://www.escapeartist.com/

It has a lot of good articles from expats.

Also you can check out online or download the CIA's World Factbook:

https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications...ook/index.html

Originally Posted by Curtman (Post 373019)

How bout the island of beautiful women?

Originally Posted by Infidel (Post 372965)

NZ still might be a choice. they got their own problems with maori n such and are anglos, which in this nwo game is a minus, they are far away enough though that in any loss of direct uplink the country will revert to it's "who gives a fvck" attitude

Originally Posted by demosfen (Post 373225)

Google Admiral Richard Byrd.
There is quite a few books on this. Here is a brief overview - http://www.2012.com.au/hollow.html

Originally Posted by coin (Post 373463)

http://www.hdnz.org/constitution.php

.

Originally Posted by Curtman (Post 373480)

Time traveler John Titor http://www.johntitor.com/ said that Nebraska will be where the government reorganizes after the breakup of the country. I think it was around 2030 but you may want to read to double check. He said that the country will break up into 5 province like regions if I remember right. Maybe it was starting in 2012 now that I think about it. :confused:

Originally Posted by Sukhoi_fan (Post 372933)

If you've never been to CR, I suggest you go - it is stunning in its beauty and the natives are very laid back and generally very friendly toward Norte Americanos. It is indeed paradise so Ticos and Ticas aren't clamoring to escape to the states, they are very happy where they are. The common phrase down there is Pura Vida - the pure life.

However, as a relocation destination it has its problems. For one thing, in order to own real estate there with a minimum of headache it is necessary to permanently retain a lawyer who specializes in monitoring the land records so someone doesn't file a claim against your property which would result in you losing it. Another problem is the level of crime, especially petty theft, which is on the rise there. In San Jose there is not a single piece of property that isn't secured with burglar bars, walls, security guards, dogs, and/or roll down riot gates. One has to drive for about an hour out into the countryside until one begins to notice a lower level of property security. Oh yeah, and there are earthquakes a couple of times a year so all the roofs are constructed of sheet metal so they aren't so heavy which could lead to a building collapse.

Originally Posted by Green Mountain Boy (Post 373527)

There's a good chance I will be traveling to Costa Rica in December for two or three weeks. My aunt is married to a Tico and has been living down there for the past 10 years. I will be doing some work with my father on their house which is in the Central Valley - about an hour away from San Jose.

It's definitely an ideal place.

If the SHTF while we're down there, hell, I might just decide to stay.

Originally Posted by Sukhoi_fan (Post 373551)

The central valley is gorgeous if you've never been there. I envy you. Please report back.

Originally Posted by GREENSILVERHORN (Post 373585)

The sea and the world is yours.:captain:

http://robot-club.com/pirates/ship-2000.JPG


S.S. G.I.M. leaves port whenever we want.

Originally Posted by Curtman (Post 373595)

Now wheres Patriot act when you need him? He could really dress that thing up wit a crew.
GSH would have to be in the crows nest along with Hmmmm? HT? BOOK?

Originally Posted by GREENSILVERHORN (Post 373610)

Keef's got choice.

Pond's got the crows nest, Gunner on the gun, Wampum man's the sail.

Curtman, somebodys gotta swab the deck.

I'll be entertaining a church service in the cabin repository.:D

Originally Posted by GREENSILVERHORN (Post 373638)

Curtman, that thing ain't big enough for your booty.

Really, you should consider the mop job.:smile:

Originally Posted by Curtman (Post 373644)

It's a 42 footer and it is laid out very nice.

It is not mine unfortunately, but it is close.

Originally Posted by GREENSILVERHORN (Post 373660)

Now your talking my language.
I will have to take a closer look.:bandit:

What channel does the Coast Guard use anyway?

Originally Posted by mamboni (Post 373366)

Thank for you the useful links, and for using grammatically correct sentences not full of mispelled words, sloppy syntax and poor punctuation. I guess those southern public schools aren't up to northern standards. Some say that people judge you by the way you speak [write] and the words you use - I know I do.

Thanks again.

Originally Posted by WAoG (Post 373693)

Originally Posted by GREENSILVERHORN (Post 374057)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...anking-fix.PNG

Welcome wetnose, interesting little map on one of those links.

I say the course for the S.S. G.I.M. should be charted around the South American coastline.

Originally Posted by mamboni (Post 374067)

Captain GreenSilverhorn:

With respect to your authority and concern for this good ship GIM and all willing souls aboard, I say we set our course for the South Seas post haste, to the coasts off Australia and New Zealand. Men speak of wondrous creatures and lands of green and silver seas as far as the eye can see. Let us endeavor to 'put a shrimp on the barbie!" Ay, and men can be men and women can be women!!! Where gold and silver still stir the ancient passions for all things real and true! Where nary a rectangular paper promise be accepted or promulgated amongst honorable men!:coolbeer:

Your humble midshipman:
mambonius aureus argentum

Originally Posted by GB1980 (Post 375555)

You have got to be kidding!

Pick a place outside the borders of this country that you think can give you what you want. Think you lost some rights here--wait until you live somewhere else--you're in for a big surprise. You are probably one of those apeasers that doesn't think anything is worth fighting for in this country. Take your kids and get out--just make a decision and get out. We will be better without your type.

Have a nice day!

:haha:

Originally Posted by GREENSILVERHORN (Post 375718)

Uts a matter for you?

Don't you know posters on this forum already have all they've wanted?

Now they are just trying to find a way to keep you hands off of it.:D

Originally Posted by mamboni (Post 373903)

Originally Posted by Scorpio (Post 373951)

now that was a good post mamboni,

It is very easy to preach at and to others, IMO each has to follow his own path and answer for it accordingly.

Originally Posted by WAoG (Post 379367)

I'm not judging you. God is going to do that, not me

It's not me condemning your soul.

You wish to flee with your wealth and family without even firing a shot.
....

In the end, we win. Its all been foretold.

That's between me and God. I'm no way near perfect.
[/SIZE][/FONT]

Originally Posted by thorgrim (Post 381233)

Originally Posted by mamboni (Post 373903)

But, you say you know God and will now judge me. In your haste to condemn my mortal soul you completely misinterpreted what I wrote. When I spoke of judging a person based upon his use of language, I obviously meant it as a gauge of his intelligence and attention to craft, not as a measure of the goodness of his soul or his godliness.

You have no right to assign responsibility or obligation to me or my family vis-a-vis the fate of this nation, except for acts of my own commission to that end, of which you have no knowledge. I am free to go where and with whom I choose. All I have and all I hold have been earned according to the rules of our system, fairly, through honest labors and efforts by me, and at no expense to others. I am not your slave or servant.

You invoke the lord's name like some mongrel kid braying about his friend the bully - you sound like some ridiculous fire-breathing preacher. I am resigned to answer for my conduct in this mortal coil at the assigned time - I live my life accordingly but would never be so bold as to speak for the father as you do. You are the reason I choose to leave this country; you do not understand what free will is; you do not respect freedom for all; you speak with arrogant self-righteous indignation against my mere desire to choose another home - you are like a toothless lion whose roar is only irritating, but serves no useful purpose.

I forgive you your trespass against me. But rest assured, I would bloody my club upon any man who attempts to restrain me and mine from exercising our freedoms: life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

You speak of my responsibilities, to the fatherland as it were. So tell me, for what do you hold Mr. Bush responsible in kind? Or Mr. Cheney? Or the members of Congress? You speak to me as an officer would speak to a draftee, about obligation and duty to the nation. So Sir: what is your plan? What will you do? What are your responsibilties to the nation?

Originally Posted by JCarvingblock (Post 381683)

The answer is still the same.

Centralized money and centralized power are a symbiotic pair. Neither can exist without the other.

You wanna escape the control freak's wetdream; you gotta take control of what is money and who creates the money, and how the value of that money is entered into the accounting.

There is no other answer. (that i see)

Carver

Originally Posted by decebal (Post 381813)

what about when the world was on the gold standard ? thats decentralised money isn't it? ok so noone was allowed to make coins but if you found some gold i'm sure you can use it as money.

Originally Posted by buff01 (Post 382291)

I'll take a berth as ship's cook, if the position is open :) My girlfriend can be the doctor...

Originally Posted by gunner (Post 382445)

Anyone know very much about Australia on the freedom index? I know the firearm laws are horrible, but that's just one legal aspect. I've read that New Zealand has mandatory voting (defacto national id) and some degree of taxation, although I can't imagine it's as bad as here in the US.

A girl that I work with is moving there with her husband in December to start a business. She said that the people there are laid back, friendly and not pretentious. She's lived in Hawaii, NJ and Florida and said that her husband lived in Australia for 10 years, always wanting to go back. Just curious if anyone had any relevant info

Housing seems a bit expensive, but it's hard to tell exactly what you get for the money or how everything compares.

http://www.realestate.com.au/
http://www.realestate.co.nz/

Originally Posted by John (Post 382449)

I am curious of what people think of something like this.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MESE%3AIT&rd=1

It is 11 acres in Costa Rica for $45,000. It is part of what they are calling an Eco-farm. Apparently started by some Pennsylvania dutch/Amish that migrated to Costa Rica.

Originally Posted by <SLV> (Post 382420)

Are you sure about that? Maybe you should ask her first...

Originally Posted by thorgrim (Post 382468)

Well I've read an article about Australia concerning its natural health laws and they are pretty much already following CODEX. Also it has some of the most restrictive gun laws, much worse than Canada even.

So if you don't have the right to bare arms or keep yourself healthy, then so what if there are some other areas you might be better off.

Canada on the other hand from what I have seen is just as controlled by the NWO as the USA. Just seems that our media and leaders are a bit smoother about how they go about it. I think this has to do with having the USA to blame for many of the things going on. Also we have the CBC which is a large government run TV/radio network. Our current Prime Minister Stephen Harper has been a guest of at least one Bilderberg meeting.

Did you know that here in Canada we don't really even have property rights? I think in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms that they protect your property from other individuals but not the government itself. I had it explained to me that if for example Toronto passed a law saying that no one could own property in Toronto they wouldn't be in contravention of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

The property rights issue is one of the major problems us gun owners are dealing with right now. If the government here in Canada was to confiscate all guns (which is the real reason why we have register them), they wouldn't even have to compensate the owners for their value.

Originally Posted by Green Mountain Boy (Post 373527)

There's a good chance I will be traveling to Costa Rica in December for two or three weeks. My aunt is married to a Tico and has been living down there for the past 10 years. I will be doing some work with my father on their house which is in the Central Valley - about an hour away from San Jose.

It's definitely an ideal place.

If the SHTF while we're down there, hell, I might just decide to stay.

Originally Posted by decebal (Post 385187)

"

My question is with regards to;
taxes - property, sales, income, etc
infrastructure - surveilance, tolls, national id, registrations, etc
cost of living - gasoline, food, water, labor
"

on Australia?
Australia has the second highest effective marginal tax rates in the developed world.
http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2005/s1319977.htm
they have reduced it lately

nation ID -they will introduce the Australia Card - sounds so patriotic does'nt it?
thats to make it easy for them to identify you ofcourse you are will not be required to have one if you don't want.
just that you cannot claim social security without it.
there are more and more strict social security requirments every 6months i suspect going towards US style living under brides Model

cost of living is increasing ofcourse
there is supposedly a low unemployment rate of 4.5% or something but ofcourse this is a manufatured figure as
anyone who works for 15hrs(casual) a week is not classified as unemployed as well as those not looking for work as they give up or those studing.

water rates here will double soon as there is a shortage of water.
food yes yummy
gasoline - petrol is about $1.10AU-1.40 /Litre as the government taxes like 40c perlitre

property prices see picture

Originally Posted by Infidel (Post 384296)

I just met an indian animation director. could not be happier with his sub continents Democracy. The biggest Democracy in the world

Originally Posted by Marketneutral (Post 387382)

Most recent study 16.3% of Australia Women Smoke.

For the U.S. 18.5% smoke.

Australia women are very nice but it is very hard to break off a relationship with them. :wazzup_sg

Originally Posted by GREENSILVERHORN (Post 373724)

But WAoG, to stay is to follow the beast.

Searching for freedom is the brave's assault.

Your ancestors set the example for you.

Originally Posted by thorgrim (Post 387372)

Another Stat I would have liked to compare would be police per capita as that would give a good indication of how effective a countries laws are. Sadly there was no data for the United States again. If anyone knows where I can find these statistics please post a link.

Originally Posted by Marketneutral (Post 387376)

You may want to look into Residential Cruise Ships. I am heavily considering it. Live on a cruse ship full time and hit 4 or 5 ports a month.

I love to travel but hate to fly.

Originally Posted by snopes

Claim: Some people have eschewed retirement homes in favor of living on cruise ships.

Status: True.

Examples:

[Collected on the Internet, 2005]

About 2 years ago my wife and I were on a cruise through the western Mediterranean aboard a Princess liner. At dinner we noticed an elderly lady sitting alone along the rail of the grand stairway in the main dining room.

I also noticed that all the staff, ships officers, waiters, busboys, etc., all seemed very familiar with this lady. I asked our waiter who the lady was, expecting to be told she owned the line, but he said he only knew that she had been on board for the last four cruises, back to back.

As we left the dining room one evening I caught her eye and stopped to say hello. We chatted and I said, "I understand you've been on this ship for the last four cruises." She replied, "Yes, that' s true." I stated, "I don't understand" and she replied, without a pause, "It's cheaper than a nursing home."

So, there will be no nursing home in my future. When I get old and feeble, I am going to get on a Princess Cruise Ship. The average cost for a nursing home is $200 per day. I have checked on reservations at Princess and I can get a long term discount and senior discount price of $135 per day. That leaves $65 a day for:

1. Gratuities which will only be $10 per day.

2. I will have as many as 10 meals a day (of fantastic food, not institutional food) if I can waddle to the restaurant, or I can have room service (which means I can have breakfast in bed every day of the week).

3. Princess has as many as three swimming pools, a workout room, free washers and dryers, and shows every night.

4. They have free toothpaste and razors, and free soap and shampoo.

5. They will even treat you like a customer, not a patient. An extra $5 worth of tips will have the entire staff scrambling to help you.

6. I will get to meet new people every 7 or 14 days!

7. TV broken? Light bulb need changing? Need to have the mattress replaced? No problem! They will fix everything and apologize for your inconvenience.

8. Clean sheets and towels every day, and you don't even have to ask for them.

9. If you fall in the nursing home and break a hip you are on Medicare; if you fall and break a hip on the Princess ship they will upgrade you to a suite for the rest of your life.

10. There is always a doctor on board.

Now hold on for the best! Do you want to see South America, the Panama Canal, Tahiti, Australia, New Zealand, Asia, or name where you want to go? Princess will have a ship ready to go. So don't look for me in a nursing home, just call shore to ship.

PS: And don't forget, when you die, they just dump you over the side at no charge.


[Collected on the Internet, 2004]

No nursing home for me! I'm checking into the Holiday Inn.

With the average cost for a nursing home per day reaching $188.00, there is a better way when we get old and feeble. I have already checked on reservations at the Holiday Inn. For a combined long-term stay discount and senior discount, it's $49.23 per night.

That leaves $138.77 a day for:

1. Breakfast, lunch, and dinner in any restaurant I want, or room service.

2. Laundry, gratuities, and special TV movies.

Plus, they provide a swimming pool, a workout room, a lounge, washer, dryer, etc. Most have free toothpaste and razors, and all have free shampoo and soap. They treat you like a customer, not a patient. $5.00 worth of tips a day will have the entire staff scrambling to help you.

There is a city bus stop out front, and seniors ride free. The handicap bus will also pick you up (if you fake a decent limp).

To meet other nice people, call a church bus on Sundays.

For a change of scenery, take the airport shuttle bus and eat at one of the nice restaurants there. While you're at the airport, fly somewhere. Otherwise, the cash keeps building up.

It takes months to get into decent nursing homes. Holiday Inn will take your reservation today. And you are not stuck in one place forever, you can move from Inn to Inn, or even from city to city. Want to see Hawaii? They have a Holiday Inn there, too.

TV broken? Light bulbs need changing? Need a mattress replaced? No problem. They fix everything and apologize for the inconvenience.

The Inn has a night security person and daily room service. The maid checks if you are OK. If not, they will call the undertaker or an ambulance. If you fall and break a hip, Medicare will pay for the hip, and Holiday Inn will upgrade you to a suite for the rest of your life.

And no worries about visits from family. They will always be glad to find you, and probably check in for a few days mini-vacation. The grandkids can use the pool. What more can you ask for?

So, when I reach the golden age I'll face it with a grin. Just forward all my emails to the Holiday Inn!"

Upon telling this story at a dinner with friends and too much red wine, we came up with even more benefits the Holiday Inn provides to retirees:

Most standard rooms have coffee makers, reclining chairs, and satellite TV — all you need to enjoy a cozy afternoon. After a movie and a good nap, you can check on your children (free local phone calls), then take a stroll to the lounge or restaurant where you meet new and exotic people every day.

Many Holiday Inns even feature live entertainment on the weekends.

Often they have special offers, too, like the Kids Eat Free Program. You can invite your grandkids over after school to have a free dinner with you. Just tell them not to bring more than three friends. Pick a Holiday Inn where they allow pets, and your best friend can keep you company as well.

If you want to travel, but are a bit skittish about unfamiliar surroundings, at a Holiday Inn you'll always feel at home because wherever you go, the rooms all look the same.

And if you're getting a little absent-minded in your old days, you never have to worry about not finding your room — your electronic key fits only one door and the helpful desk clerk is on duty 24/7.

Being perma-skeptics, we called a Holiday Inn to check this story out — and are happy to report that they were positively giddy at the idea of us checking in for a year or more. They even offered to negotiate the rate (we could have easily knocked them down to $40 a night!).

See you at the Inn!


[Collected on the Internet, 2003]

With the average cost for a Nursing Home per DAY reaching $188.00 there IS a BETTER way!

I have ascertained that I can get a nice enough room at the Holiday Inn for around $65.00 & that leaves $123.00 a day for beer,or wine, food, room service, laundry, gratuities, & special TV movies.

There is a swimming pool, an exercise room, a lounge, washer, dryer, etc. Most have free toothpaste & razors & all have free shampoo & soap.

Super 8 is even more economical as they offer a free breakfast each morning.

There may be a wait to get to that first floor room, but that's okay, it takes MONTHS to get into decent nursing homes.

There is a Senior bus, the handicap bus, if you can fake a believable limp, a church bus or van, cabs & a regular bus as well.

The Inn has security & if someone sees you drop over an ambulance is called for you & should you break a hip, the American way is to sue.

What more can one ask for?!

As a bonus they all have AARP & other senior discounts, so when I reach that point...

Help me keep my grin
And just check my old bones in...
into the nearest.........Holiday Inn!

Origins: Although the "cruise ship" recounting has become the more widespread, the earlier form taken by this piece of e-lore featured not a luxury liner but a hotel. In 2003 this waggish diatribe against the cost of nursing home care had its writer swearing to check into a Holiday Inn when the grey hairs became too many. By 2004, some of the numbered items now found in the "cruise ship" tale were in place, albeit in a version that claimed Holiday Inn rather than Princess as substitute elder care housing (e.g., "TV broken? Light bulb need changing? Need to have the mattress replaced? No problem! They will fix everything and apologize for your inconvenience"). By 2005 more numbered items had been added, including some cruise-specific ones (e.g., "There is always a doctor on board" and "And don't forget, when you die, they just dump you over the side at no
charge").

Also by 2005, what had begun as one writer's claim about his or her fanciful future plans had come to be presented as the actual remarks of an old woman living that life on a cruise ship. It is at this intersection that folklore and reality meet — while the account of the "elderly lady" has clearly evolved from earlier pieces about pie-in-the-sky retirement plans involving Holiday Inn, there is at least one woman of advanced years who has indeed made her home on a cruise ship.

Bea Muller, an 86-year-old retiree, has been a permanent resident on Cunard's Queen Elizabeth 2 since 5 January 2000. Her husband had passed away while the couple was on a world cruise eleven months earlier, and rather than opt for a retirement home, Mrs. Muller sold her house and possessions and booked herself onto the ship.

Instead Cruise ship of submitting a monthly or yearly fee, in 2001 Muller was reported to be paying as she went, booking one cruise after another. Thanks to her frequent traveller discounts, her overall costs amounted to about $5,000 a month. (Cruise prices have increased in the past few years, which is something those entertaining similar plans should keep in mind. Also, Muller's accomodations are small and windowless: a 10x10 foot cabin that barely fits a bed, radio, and television, with a bathroom smaller than the average closet found in a typical home.)

Its cramped quarters aside, Muller is happy with her life aboard a ship. "I've got full-time maid service, great dining rooms, doctors, medical center (where she volunteers), a spa, beauty salon, computer center, entertainment, cultural activities and, best of all, dancing and bridge."

Bea Muller is not the first long-time cruisers: Cunard has had one previous guest, Clair MacBeth, who lived on board for 14 years.

As to whether living out one's golden years aboard a cruise ship is a viable alternative to spending them in a retirement home, a geriatrician at Northwestern University says such a plan is a feasible and cost-effective alternative to assisted-living facilities. Dr. Lee Lindquist, an instructor at Northwestern's Feinberg School of Medicine, compared the costs (over a 20-year life expectancy) of moving to an assisted-living facility, a nursing home and a cruise ship, including the expense of treating acute illnesses, Medicare reimbursement and other factors. She determined that the net cost of cruise-ship living was only about $2,000 more than the alternatives ($230,000 versus $228,000) and offered a higher quality of service.

"Cruise ships offer such a range of amenities — such as three meals a day, often with escorts to meals if needed, room service, entertainment, accessible halls and cabins, housekeeping and laundry services and physicians on board — that they could actually be considered a floating assisted-living facility," says Lindquist.

Lindquist says the plan would work best for seniors who need a minimal amount of care. "Seniors who enjoy travel, have good or excellent cognitive function but require some assistance with activities of daily living are the ideal candidates for cruise-ship care. Just as with assisted living, if residents became acutely ill or got to the point that they needed a higher level of care, they would have to leave."

Although Lindquist's findings would seem to support the premise of it being cheaper to live on a luxury liner than in a retirement home, we'd want to examine her research vis-a-vis the types of care facilities she looked at and the cruise-ship costs she factored in before we'd feel comfortable about offering an opinion on her assessment. (She might have compared only very expensive retirement homes against the cheapest accomodations offered on ships that are less than well thought of, for example.)

However, whatever the validity of Lindquist's findings, cost is but one of the elements to the choice of where to reside after retirement. Golden agers who decide to make their permanent homes on cruise ships sacrifice proximity to family and friends; their nearest and dearest are no longer just a short car ride away. Those devoted to their children and grandchildren might well deem that too high a price to pay, no matter what the spreadsheet says about the relative financial costs. Likewise, those who lack progeny but who are involved in their communities or who are part of a number of strong friendships may not want to opt for the vagabond life, because it would mean abandoning that which gives them joy.

Also, life on a cruise ship means one acquaintance after another, but no permanent ongoing connections of any depth. Fellow passengers disembark to return to their regular lives at the termination of their one- or two-week holidays, which means friendships struck up with them land in the "We'll keep in touch" bin very quickly. As for staff, while serial cruisers can strike up deeply affable relationships with some of the line's employees, these rapports are inherently limited by their very nature: no matter how close such associations appear to be, ships' employees are required to be deferential to paying passengers, so the friendship-critical element of honesty can never be part of such dealings. Making a cruise ship one's permanent address, therefore, will not be for everyone. While those at ease with a steady diet of the superficial will thrive, those who require the comfort of at least a few real friendships will likely feel lonely even though they live among crowds.

Barbara "grey areas" Mikkelson

Last updated: 15 March 2005

Originally Posted by GoldenPoet (Post 395609)

Please post urls....
I have been interested bt not found any that were
actually operating yet.

Originally Posted by Marketneutral (Post 387382)

Most recent study 16.3% of Australia Women Smoke.

For the U.S. 18.5% smoke.

Australia women are very nice but it is very hard to break off a relationship with them. :wazzup_sg

Originally Posted by Anty Ep (Post 687089)

I have a friend who went from RSA to UK and now he's come here. He is not Afrikaans, but an English, born in Rhodesia, emigrated to RSA, now fed up with that mess and now fed up with the UK and willing to settle on USA because "at least there are opportunities here." he meant small business opportunities.

yes in the USA we got the Euros licked hands down on the ability to start a small business. for that the USA is tops, especially if you are not in a big shitty.

I say stay in the USA, realistically, there's no place left to run.

Originally Posted by mamboni (Post 372800)

America is slowly becoming a police state. Thanks to Bush and the Neocons, their phony "war on terror" is being used to strip away individual rights of privacy, property and due process day by day. And a corrupt feckless Congress silently acquiesses. America, once the free-market industrial powerhouse, innovator and envy (materially and politically) of the world, has already degenerated into a de facto socialist welfare state.

I am considering leaving the USA because I have two children 15 and 17 and I want them to have a better future, with reasonable protections to their freedom and some opportunities. But, the USA seems to have inserted it's corroding tentacles into the virtual four corners of the globe. So, while I have concluded that the USA's future will be dismal, I am uncertain that there is any place else worth running to.

GIM members are international in scope so I ask: is there any country or enclave where a person can still work, keep most of what he honestly earns free of confiscutory taxes, and enjoy relative privacy and freedom from the ever intrusive and controlling government? :albertein

Originally Posted by mtnman (Post 687100)

Originally Posted by mamboni (Post 687187)

Yes, I am willing to fight! I have had a change of heart since posting this thread and being the tired, somewhat grumpy and now, better informed GIM member since then, I have decided that I am not willing to surrender the USA to Bush and his Neocon-Zionist gang of thugs.

I educate my children about the realities of today's world: to eschew the mass media, to think for themselves, to avoid debts and material obligations to others, to keep a low profile and avoid any entanglements with the law, to question anything and everything government and authorities tell them and most important, to be self-sufficient and responsible for oneself.

Originally Posted by mamboni (Post 372846)

The responses so far have varied from sardonic to sarcastic to irreverent, with a couple expressing frank and honest dispair at the limited prospects.

This is a tough crowd! To quote Lloyd Bridges: "I guess I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue!"

Originally Posted by mamboni (Post 687187)

Yes, I am willing to fight! I have had a change of heart since posting this thread and being the tired, somewhat grumpy and now, better informed GIM member since then, I have decided that I am not willing to surrender the USA to Bush and his Neocon-Zionist gang of thugs.

I educate my children about the realities of today's world: to eschew the mass media, to think for themselves, to avoid debts and material obligations to others, to keep a low profile and avoid any entanglements with the law, to question anything and everything government and authorities tell them and most important, to be self-sufficient and responsible for oneself.

Originally Posted by TaxHaven (Post 688390)

Your thinking right, mamboni! I left Canada in 1989 for Taiwan and have never looked back. My kids were born here, & countryside is truly beautiful. But I think you're asking the wrong people: GiMers have become great Bush supporters, super-patriotic America-first-ers and Dick Cheney clones. They will never criticize "their" government and will remain tax-paying sheeple even while claiming that precious metals investing leads to financial freedom.

That said, anywhere in Asia you'll quickly become a non-entity and enjoy more or less complete freedom. Here, they don't even monitor wire transfers effectively and moreover, don't seem to care to much what foreign residents do. But where to go? dependes on your job requirements; Malaysia has a "My Second Home" program but if you're like me you just start out with a back-pack, no special skills and you will see opportunities!

Living overseas is really like a permanent vacation!

Originally Posted by mamboni (Post 687187)

Yes, I am willing to fight! I have had a change of heart since posting this thread and being the tired, somewhat grumpy and now, better informed GIM member since then, I have decided that I am not willing to surrender the USA to Bush and his Neocon-Zionist gang of thugs.

I educate my children about the realities of today's world: to eschew the mass media, to think for themselves, to avoid debts and material obligations to others, to keep a low profile and avoid any entanglements with the law, to question anything and everything government and authorities tell them and most important, to be self-sufficient and responsible for oneself.

Originally Posted by jman (Post 688445)

Sounds good to me, I get take all my faith and daily living practices from the Orient anyway. I would feel a hell of a lot more comfortable there..especially knowing there isn't someone that steals my damn labor.

Originally Posted by TaxHaven (Post 688390)

Your thinking right, mamboni! I left Canada in 1989 for Taiwan and have never looked back. My kids were born here, & countryside is truly beautiful. But I think you're asking the wrong people: GiMers have become great Bush supporters, super-patriotic America-first-ers and Dick Cheney clones. They will never criticize "their" government and will remain tax-paying sheeple even while claiming that precious metals investing leads to financial freedom.

Originally Posted by Anty Ep (Post 688485)

But -- to answer the question, Estonia is a great place to live right now, that's often overlooked.

:D

Originally Posted by cigarlover (Post 701015)

For now I am getting out while I am still free to do so. Rememeber it was only 20 years ago when Russians werent even allowed to leave.

Originally Posted by cigarlover (Post 701015)

Mexico is still cheap but they have thier own set of problems.

Originally Posted by GoldenPoet (Post 701142)

Please elaborate!

Also, any info about Ecuador, Uruguay, Fiji, Tahiti?